FOX CUP #7

 

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TWW FOX CUP SERIES #7


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Central Coast Cyclocross MTB Series #4


Fort Ord, CA

June 5th, 2005

Visit their website for more details on CCCX Races.

 

TWW AT CCCX #4!

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Results

Place 	Rider 	# laps 	Time 	First 	Last 	Club/Sponsor 	City 	Category
10 	363 	3 	1:17:37 Patrick Meyer 	Team Wrong Way 	Campbell Junior Men 14-18 
8 	368 	4 	1:32:50 Matt 	Leonard Team Wrong Way 	San Francisco Sport Men<=34
7 	983 	4 	1:23:41 Jeff 	Hane 	Team Wrong Way 	Campbell Sport Men 35-44
14 	925 	4 	1:26:09 Rich 	Henthorn Team Wrong Way Santa Cruz Sport Men 35-44
15 	968 	4 	1:27:24 Frank 	Mangin 	Team Wrong Way 	Santa Clara Sport Men 35-44
28 	987 	4 	1:42:47 David 	McCrimmon Team Wrong Way San Jose Sport Men 35-44
2 	369 	4 	1:32:17 Chris 	Machon 	Team Wrong 	Way Walnut Creek Clydesdale
1 	223 	4 	1:48:02 Meredith Obendorfer Velo Bella 	Menlo Park Sport Women<=34
2 	168 	5 	1:41:04 Isaias 	Job 	Team Wrong Way 	San Jose Single Speed
5 	184 	5 	1:46:19 Allan 	Sherlock Team Wrong Way 	 Single Speed

 

Race Reports

Sunday rolls around and I had decided to race earlier in the week.  I figured nothing would be more challenging for me than a CCX race.  Now you might find this sarcastic but in reality flat fast courses are a real challenge for me.

I roll into Fort Ord on Sunday morning to a chilly breeze.  Here I was thinking it was going to be hot as hell.  Nope, very cold and I only brought hot weather gear.  Oh well!  I go to registration and see Hane and Mo.  This being a Fox Cup race and no one from TWW, hmmm is the joke on me.  I go for a warmup with Mo, we end up doing a lap on the course and I get back with 5 minutes to spare.  Go to the line and I see Rich, Franck, Jeff and a bunch of shaven roadies.  Hmmm not a good sign.

We take off and I am near the rear of the pack with Rich.  We get to a steep pitch in the single track and people are falling over themselves.  I pass two or three people and am now one person behind Rich.  We are moving up, as I approach the turnaround point I see Matt on the road.  So I have almost made my minute up on the sport < 35.  We start heading down and my bike gets really squirely.  I press on but I am now starting to hear a hum from the tires.  I say to myself that it has to be the course and being in the big ring is why the frequency has such modulation. Rich puts some distance on me on the DH section as I am fighting my bike, its crazy as I am sliding in every direction.  Finally I stop and squeeze the tires and everything seems okay.  I go another 100 ft and the almost fall over, the front tire pops.

Changing the tire, hmmm should be easy but nooooooo! I find the thorn quite quickly as its about a 1/2" long.  I get all my tools out of my back pockets but the damn tire won't come off the wheel.  I have three tire arms on it and it  won't budge.  I spend more time retriving tire arms from the tall grass than fixing the tire.  Finally I break the bread as the sport woman go by me.  Just as I am getting the new tube in, Mo goes by and wishes me well.  I finally get the tire back on the rim and air back in.  In my haste I put the tire on in the wrong direction.  Mistake but do you really need traction when the course might as well be pave'.  Time changing tire > 10 min.

I start riding my bike again and think about just calling it a day.  Then I realize I paid $30 for this joy and continue on.  I'll catch Mo and motivate her to push on.  I catch some Bella's but it isn't Mo.  I decide to turn it up a bit, I then see Mo in the distance and I catch up.  I ride behind her for about a mile without saying much.  She then realizes I am there and say she has a headache.  I hadn't even asked for sex yet.  Just kidding Mo, I am a happily married man.  Although that is my natural allure! Call it the McCrimmon charm, I can get any woman to say no w/o asking.

I make it around for Lap 3 and realize that I have been poking.  I better pick it up otherwise I might get lapped.  I pass two Roaring Mouse guys and crank it up a notch.  I pass a few people along the way but really I am all alone.  I make it around for lap 4 and I haven't been lapped.  It must have been close as the laps were probably no longer than 20 minutes and I was changing that tire for a long time.  About 3/4 the way through lap 4 a guy comes up behind me.  I move over and he says he is just warming up.  We hit the road and he pulls away like I am standing still.  I didn't feel bad later as he did the same to the entire pro field.  I finish, probably DFL.  You just can't afford any mechanicals on a CCX course.

Dave

 

 

Well, this weekend went better than the skyline race in that I didn't get dead freakin last.  I went to bed about 1:30 on Saturday night and woke up at about 6:30 really tired.  I guess the college kid in me keeps telling me I am a loser if I don't stay up late on a Saturday night.  Oh well.  I jumped in the car, cranked up the stereo and headed out to Fort Ord.  As I pulled up I saw Meredith and said whats up.  So, off to sign in.  I went back to the car and got ready.  As I pulled my bike out of my car, the girl next to me said she had never seen anyone else with my bike and she had the same one.  She proceeded to tell me that its her commuter bike and she was trying to recall how long ago she bought it, but couldn't.  I told her that when I bought it I wasn't sure how serious I was going to take mountain biking and didn't want to be that guy with the 3000 wall hanging in my apartment that looks cool, but just collects dust.  So she gave me this funny look and said that she was impressed I was racing on it.  Is my bike that crappy?  Doubt it.  But its no fancy Titus or anything.  With a half hour to go, Chris and I rode most of the course for a warm up and came back to the starting line and waited for the race to start.  I lined up towards the back of the pack as usual, not wanting to get in anyones way.  As expected, everyone took off and left me in the dust, except for one person.  Sweet, I am not in dead last yet!  So I caught up with most of the pack once we hit the dirt, but had a hard time keeping up.  As I fell back a little bit, everyone from the groups behind me started to pass me.  Oh well.  I just kept going at a comfortable pace.  About half way through the first lap, I caught up to Chris and we rode together for the majority of the race.  We traded positions several times, but with a mile or two to go, he started to chase another rider and I couldn't keep up.  I have to say thanks to Patrick for cheering me on from that tower thing towards the end of each lap.  Even though he didn't remember my name, it was nice to have someone cheering for me.  Overall, I was pretty disappointed with my 9th or 11 finish (oh wait, its 8th out of 10 since Chris decided to switch to Clydesdale after the finish to take 2nd out of 2.  Nice podium finish Chris ;-) )  I feel like I have been riding pretty hard lately, and everyone still blows by me right from the start.  Oh well, I guess it will just take a few more months to catch up.  For the most part, the course was pretty boring.  I really enjoy the technical stuff, it really adds a fun challenge for me and gives me a sense of accomplishment when I tackle something that I know I couldn't have made it over a few months ago.  So without that, the only challenge was to go faster, but that obviously didn't happen.  Oh well, time to get back to skeggs and try to prepare for the next race.  See everyone Tuesday. 
 
Later,
    Matt Leonard

 

 

Hey All,
 
OK, so after opening my big mouthing on the list and issuing a race challenge to the team, I felt obligated to race my single speed since the only person that responded, Allan, was going to be riding his single speed.
 
Ah yes, the torterous memories of cramping like a mutha at the C-otter began to seep back into my consciousness. Plus riding a SS after hurting my wrist was probably not a good idea, but I thought what the heck, there really isn't much climbing on the CCCX course anyway and my first and only CCCX race this year was on my ss.
 
Any who, TWW had quite a showing! I can't remember the last time I saw that many TWWers at a race: Allan, Rich H, Jeff Hane, Dave McCrakin, Patrick Meyer, Chris Mahone, Matt Leonard, Jason, MO and me! Plus a bunch of our friends from Roaring Mouse and Velo Bella teams, plus Romolo the semi-TWW associated semi-pro.
 
So for this race, since I was racing the SS and in need of a bit of inspiration, I decided to tap into the mysteriously powerful mojo of the Velo Bellas. That's right, picture this, a small, skin tight VB jersey combined with the TWW shorts... if your power of visualization isn't that strong, here's a few pics:
All the Velo Bellas I ran into  got a big kick out of it! Plus it was hilarious to see people doing double takes, like wait a minute, is that a guy or a girl....i think the shaved legs may have confused them ;-)
 
Ok, Ok, enough rambling, so what happened at the race?
 
I lined up with the rest of the SSers, there was 11 of us. Pretty good size field. My thought for this race was to stay with the lead pack, so they took off and I stuck with them. I was the fourth man back in the pack and since the start has a longish, windy pavement start, before hitting the singletrack, I drafted off the guys in front of me. As we approached the dirt, the pack split and people sprinted for the dirt. I railed passed the fourth guy and got on the 3rd guys wheel. My legs and lungs were feeling pretty good. On the first bit of a climb, one guy dabs and screws up my line. I hop off the bike and try to run passed him, but don't quite make it. I remount and continue to chase 3rd place (turns out this kid was like 16). I pass him on the downhill and he quickly passed me on another slight up hill.
 
My heart rate is through the roof, so I back off a bit to recover, without letting the guys out of my sight. At some point, it kinda became apparent to me that this kid was trying to work with his buddy in back of me, because he's really slowing down the pace quite a bit. After the first secion of downhill singletrack, through the poison oak groves, I pass him and a Black Market Racing guy on a fireroad. Now I'm in second place and still feeling good, I'm kinda surprised, and am just waiting for Allan to come flying by me at any moment. I can see the first place guy, Sully from Independent Fabrication team, I brige up to him and suck his wheel. At that point I realize, he's going slower than I'd like, plus I want to open up the gap on the two guys that I just passed.
 
So the trail widens again, at the top of another little climb and I sprint passed him without saying a word. NOTE to self#1, when it is safe to pass without shouting on your left, this is a good thing, as it catches your competitor off gaurd and puts you at the advantage. Now they have to push to catch you. I upped the pace, I'm seriously redlined, and the IF guy is on my a$$. I pull him for about the rest of the lap and then he passes me before we get into the spectator area.
 
We continued to do this throughout the race and we continued to open the gap on the rest of the ss category. We even started picking through the expert geared class in the first lap. NOTE to self#2: If you can find somebody that your a pretty evenly matched with you can push the pace and open up the gap on the rest of the field. I suppose this is much like the tactics used by roadies, where they take turns making pulls at the front of  a break away.
 
I couldn't believe how good I was feeling. I kept wondering when the cramps would start and I didn't feel them start to creep up on me until the 4th lap. At that point I backed off a bit and tried to ride as efficiently as possible, braking as little as possible and conserving my momentum through turns and on all downhill sections. I was saving my legs for the short hills and flat pave road attacks.
 
So the rest of the race was basically, Sean (IF guy) and I trading places, trying to make each other crack. I was pissed, cause although I would pass him in the back of the course, every time we came through the timing area (i.e. where all the spectators were) he was back in front of me...dooh!
 
In the last lap, my quads were aching and twinging with cramps. I rode as efficiently as I could and kept inching up on Sean, while be careful not to induce a full blown, leg locking cramp in my quads. So about 1/4 mile before the finish, I'm upping the pace and closing the gap on Sean...unfortunately, there are a few too many turns for me to make up any significant time on him. In anycase, I came across the finish line about 5 seconds in back of Sean....that's good enough for me ;-) The rest of the SS pack came in about 4-5 minutes in back of us....apparently pushing each other at the front of the pack really worked!
 
After the race, Sean and I high-fived one another and then discussed how we were each trying to make the other one crack and that we were both relentlous with the attacks! Turns out that he took 2nd place in the Solo SS Category at Laguna Seca...holy crap, i guess that means I did alright!
 
Thanks to Liz and the pugs for emotional support and water bottle feeds (also thanks to Dave Mc for taken the pugs for a Jog --- they were completely pooped on the way home)! Also, big shouts out to all the cheers from my team mates and especially to MO, Chris (and his mom), Matt and Jason for sticking around till the end of the expert race! You guys rock!
 
Big shout to our sponsors: On-One for the super sweet Inbred single speed equipped with WTB 2.4 Mutano raptors and Rocket Race saddle, Raceface carbon risers bars, Easton stem and carbon post, and off course my ultra efficient hope disc brakes and Crank Brother egg beaters!
 
The last shout out goes to Wenzel coaching for helping me to realize my potential!
 
Rock on!
Isaias
Team Wrong Way

 

 

A couple things...

1. You know Matt belongs to this group when he asks "wait, beer isn't a recovery drink?!"
2. Wednesday road ride, keep me posted, I like it.
3. My headache is gone now, unfortunately not by means that I'd prefer.
4. My report about this weekend that I posted to the VB site is below.
5. The pictures of Isaias wearing a VB jersey and me wearing a TWW jersey are entitled "cross pollination."  haha.

cheers,
Meredith


Dash for Cash Crit & CCCX #4: Just give me two wheels

It's really funny, I listen to the guys on the Team Wrong Way email list bitch & moan about how many of their teammates go over to the "dark side"... or in other words, ride a bike with skinny tires as opposed to fat ones. I think I used to think like this too. I'd always say "I'm a dirt girl! Grrrr!" Nowadays, I say just give me anything with two wheels and a pair of pedals and I'm happy. I took my theory to heart this past weekend and raced on both the road and the dirt.


Dash for Cash Crit: Saturday

This was my second crit, but with all the other far away road racing I've been doing lately (2 stage races-- Madera and Kern), this fact didn't dawn on me until I was at the line and I was looking at, like, 15 Velo Girls. Pink everywhere! I guess this is the standard experience of local crits. Jenny A. joined me and together the two of us represented the Bellas in the 4's. I hopped to the front right away and decided to give the first "dash for cash" a try. I'm not totally sure what I'm doing yet when it comes to the timing of sprints so I came in 4th in that one and then 3rd in the other cash prime I went for, about 6 or 7 laps later. When the latter prime happened, myself and the 2 other girls had a break. The leader wanted to make it stick but I thought there was no way that would actually happen so I backed off in effort to save myself for the rest of the race. When the rest of the field caught me and tagged on to the back of my wheel I sat up, thinking I didn't need to do any work because of the 30 kazillion Velo Girls in the field-- both riders in the break were not Velo Girls. I figured this was the best strategic thing to do for me. I'm still learning the whole crit strategy thing too.

Evidently the Velo Girls didn't want to work either (or couldn't) because the break actually stuck, which sucked because then the 2 girls in the break took the rest of the cash primes. Coming into the final 3 laps I was in a great spot, about 3 or 4 wheels back. In my extreme naivete, I got impatient when the front slowed ridiculously down in the very last corner and in frustration, I attacked. I broke for a moment, but of course was caught and then thought to myself "oh my god, that was so dumb, I am now pulling the group up for the final sprint." When the sprint came I was going too hard from the attack to make much of a move and came in a mediocre 17/26 when the field swarmed around me. It was rookie of me, but overall I was excited because it was my first "official" real move, instead of all the sitting in and learning I've been doing. I also now know I have the handling skills to really attack going into a corner. So that was Saturday's crit.


CCCX #4: Sunday

I like CCCX just because the first race of this series last year was my first mountain bike race ever. And it's a fun and fast course. We had a great Bella showing with Julie Starling, Daphne Hodgson, Kathleen Bortolussi, Kelly Miller and myself in the Sport category. Sarah Kerlin was there to capture the Bella moment on camera. I later saw Ann Cigan and Teisha in the expert group. Congrats to Teisha for upgrading after winning the Sport category at Sea Otter (or was it 2nd?)!

Ironically, despite the great showing of the Bellas in the Sport category, I was the only one in my field. Not the only Bella... like, the only Sport woman under 34 racing. So no suspense as to who won there. I took first and last. Knowing the outcome prior to the  start of the race, I figured mentally I'd just race with the rest of the women. I powered off from the start and held my position for the rest of the race. I had a small slide out in the start/finish area on the second lap which initiated an annoying headache for the next two laps. I tried my damndest my last (and 4th) lap to catch my friend Kasie who was probably no more than 30 seconds in front of me. It didn't happen but was glad that the girl behind never caught me even though everytime the trail had us going the opposing way, I could see she was getting closer. I finished way better than I thought I would, 5/9. Julie evidently took a nasty spill on a climb and her and Kelly finished out the race together a couple minutes back from me. Way to stay on, Julie! And that was Sunday.

With all this racing, I'm really looking forward to just riding for a couple weekends before it starts again (Pescadero RR). But I hear there's a crit in Fremont next weekend....

Until then,
Mo.

'Bellas

 

 

OK. I'm going to base my race report on McCrimmon's, since he did such a good job (except for the flat-thing).

Dave McCrimmon wrote:
>
> Sunday rolls around and I had decided to race earlier
> in the week.  I figured nothing would be more
> challenging for me than a CCX race.  Now you might
> find this sarcastic but in reality flat fast courses
> are a real challenge for me.

Dave speaks the truth about these flat courses - they are truly challenging for anyone hoping to see a mountain at a mountain-bike race. A true "roadie-course" with no climbs, no technical areas, a ton of drafting, and very little recovery - or fun for that matter.

I had long-planned on racing this race, but what I decided this week was to break-out the Homegrown hardtail, since the course is so flat and fast. For the past two years it's been set-up for the wife, while I've been on the Yeti AS-R. When I test-drove it on Saturday, I realized I had forgotten how much fun that bike is. A bit twitchy, but then it's built for speed.

>
> I roll into Fort Ord on Sunday morning to a chilly
> breeze.  Here I was thinking it was going to be hot as
> hell.  Nope, very cold and I only brought hot weather
> gear.

I did the same thing. Not a long-sleeve item in my possession. Not an issue during the race, but for before-and-after it would have been great.

> Oh well!  I go to registration and see Hane and
> Mo.  This being a Fox Cup race and no one from TWW,
> hmmm is the joke on me.  I go for a warmup with Mo, we
> end up doing a lap on the course and I get back with 5
> minutes to spare.

Right after I registered, I slapped my number on and went for a warm-up/pre-ride.

> Go to the line and I see Rich,
> Franck, Jeff and a bunch of shaven roadies.  Hmmm not
> a good sign.
>
> We take off and I am near the rear of the pack with
> Rich.

My plan wasn't to start in the back, with Dave. But Sport 35-44 is always by far the largest category at CCCX, and everyone wants to get to the singletrack in the front group. Jeff, Franck, and Kenny did that pretty well. Alas, Dave and I didn't.

> We get to a steep pitch in the single track and
> people are falling over themselves.

Did I mention that this is a race for the roadies? Oh my god! I saw what was happening up ahead (picture all these guys jumping off their bikes, stumbling up a sandy, loose but very-rideable little push) and managed to slow to a virtual stand-still without dismounting. What a bunch of weenies.

> I pass two or
> three people and am now one person behind Rich.  We
> are moving up, as I approach the turnaround point I
> see Matt on the road.  So I have almost made my minute
> up on the sport < 35.

Yup, I noticed that too. I also noticed Franck was already past him. That first lap was so frustrating being bottled-up behind people on the singletrack. I know, I could attempt to pass off the trail, but my theory is the risk of a flat or other mishap isn't worth the effort. Might not have been the wrong choice, as it turned-out:

> We start heading down and my
> bike gets really squirely.  I press on but I am now
> starting to hear a hum from the tires.  I say to
> myself that it has to be the course and being in the
> big ring is why the frequency has such modulation.
> Rich puts some distance on me on the DH section

(Now he KNOWS something just ain't right!)

> as I
> am fighting my bike, its crazy as I am sliding in
> every direction.  Finally I stop and squeeze the tires
> and everything seems okay.  I go another 100 ft and
> the almost fall over, the front tire pops.

Anyway, back to my race...

The 2nd lap went better, in that I wasn't bottled-up as much, but I did come upon a group of three in the singletrack that were going just a tad slower than I wanted. I just waited until we got past the turnaround and on the pavement and shot past. After the half-mile of road, just before the course enters the sandy trail again, I risk a glance back thinking I'm going to see the three of them right on my ass. No! Nobody's there. I couldn't even see them. I must have really put the hammer down.

OK, start of the 3rd lap, I'm all by myself. No one within radar range, I decide my goal is to reel-in Franck, have him in sight before the 4th and final lap. I get to the section of trail where you can see the road section, and I hope I don't see Franck on the road yet (that would mean I haven't made-up any ground). Nope, don't see him. But just around the next turn, I see him just ahead. What?! That can't be him. But it is. On to the road section, I see him about 200 yards ahead, arching his back a little trying to stretch-out. I close, and I'm right behind him as he heads down the only real descent on the course. We come up on a slower rider, and we pass him on the little climb that had everyone jumping off on the first lap. I pass Franck at the start/finish line as we head off for the final lap. 

I can hear Franck right behind me as we turn west into the headwind. Heck, that's cool. I sensed that he might be a little low on energy. Maybe if he drafts me for a while, we can work together later and catch some more in our race. Well, it wasn't to be. After the first little climb, he was a ways back. Then after another mile and another little push, he wasn't there. Turned out, we didn't make up much ground as we finished in the coveted 14th and 15th positions.

Criminy! But that's what it's like out there. I work like a dog, feels like I'm hauling-a$$, but then have such a mediocre finish. Oh well, at least Franck and I beat the Roaring Rodents in our race. Gotta look for the silver lining.

Happy trails.

-Rich

 

 

Like Mo, I have to start my report with a bit of road racing on Saturday.  Finally got around to upgrading my licensed to Cat 4 so decided to do two crits on Saturday.  First up was the Cat 4 race, it was fast and furious with primes every lap but I hung in till the last turn when I pulled aside since I was to far back for the sprint.

  One hour later I was on the line for the Master's 4/5.  This is the race where I finally figured something out.  You ever see the pro's race and some guy is just like 15 seconds in front of everybody but nobody can catch him?

There was a break that I missed and wasn't coming back.  It's only out there about 20 seconds or so and finally me and another guy decide to chase.  I am absolutely PEGGED for two laps, and avg HR of 188 and my LT is probably 182, and we can't bring them back.  I pulled out with about 10 minutes to go knowing I was racing mtb on Sunday.  I'll never again wonder why it's so hard to close a gap!

 Sunday comes, I have to get up early because Patrick's race starts at 9:00.  Maybe it's time for him to move up!  It's freezing, I only see Dave, I'm tired.

I'm so cold I rub on some Leg Salsa and then take a very easy warmup lap.  There is no real climbing which is good because my climbing sucks right now and I'm tired.  Of course, a flat, fast course usually meant little or no rest so that's not good either.

 I head for the line and noticed a few others have showed up, specifically Rich and Franck who I was hoping would be there.  As Rich said, somehow we ended up totally in the back but there is a uphill section of road before the singletrack. 

 We start, nobody wants to fight the headwind, so I'm able to jump around most of the people on the left and then tuck back in and go into the singletrack in fourth.

  Franck passes me before the start/finish which is perfect.  Franck is the "man" lately so my goal was to stay with him or Rich who I knew has been right on Franck's wheel lately.  It's windy, I'm tired, I sit on Franck's wheel and draft like the pathetic hairy-legged roadie I seem to have become lately.  Kenny

ing-from-back-surgery-so-I-can-race-sport-but-will-still-kick-your-butt" Cleveland passes at some point.  Yea, whatever.  Franck's pace feels pretty easy, no doubt due to all pills I take,  and we still have a ways to go so I'm not moving.

  After more then 1 1/2 laps, I think Franck has figured out my game and gets me to go by.  I go by but don't really speed up.  Well, some other guy decides to pass so I figure his wheel is just as good as Franck's. He picks it up and that the last I see of Franck.  Wheel sucking scum that I am, I then proceed to sit on this guy's wheel for more than a lap:)  Hey, I raced twice on Saturday, I'm ahead a Franck and I'm not trying to be this guys friend!

  Last lap, I attack up the small incline leaving my "friend" behind and finally start pushing myself since it easy from that point on  Near the turnaround, I see a red jersey and think it might be Kenny.  We hit the first road section and I can tell it is him!  I have the scent of blood and I just hammer for all I'm worth.  Last short road section into the smooth fast, singletrack I flying at 28 MPH.  I try to be sneaky and don't yell out when I go to pass.  Brilliant move as I just about kill Kenny and myself as I discover of the trail is not so smooth(I should take some ginko to help me think)

  Another rider is in front of Kenny but I can't get around yet.  I see that it is Russ, Frank W's clydesdale nemesis.  He does a little kickout on a bump and naturally I have to give him a hard time.  I'm so busy give Russ crap that Kenny passes me back before a short, slightly loose climb.  Clearly, I'm just not taking racing serious enough!  We pass Mo, she fails to take out Kenny for me, so I'm trying to pass in the final 1/2 mile but we're just going too fast.  I hope he flounders on the last hairpin but no luck and I can't sprint by him.  Good enough for 7th.

  Saw a couple cross bikes out there and the trails are so smooth and fast it looks like it could be a lot of fun.  If I can get mine back together by next week might just have to try that!

jeff

 

 

 

 

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